Episode 19: Announcing the Crossroads GT

The Odysseus Legion Podcast is your source for all things competitive BattleTech. From list building and play-by-plays to event structure and organization. Everything you need to play, compete, and organize.

In today's episode we announce that our friend Zess is hosting the first evert BattleTech Grand Tournament as part of Crossroads GT this September! We go over the list construction rules, and talk about tournaments in general.

Check it out here: https://www.crossroads-gt.com/

For rules of engagement, discord links, and an events calendar visit www.odysseuslegion.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:02

This episode is brought to you by Jake Thousand Stormbirds.

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Like writing a fight.

SPEAKER_06 0:08

A robot fight. Skimmers and Salamanders everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Garter hates heavy battle armor and free arm. So what do I play with a lot of things?

SPEAKER_07 0:19

That's the only thing you play with. That way you can't ever be a negative one-zero in a top hot team.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Welcome to the Odysseus Legion Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Hello, hello, and welcome to the 19th episode of the Odysseus Legion Podcast. My name is Nicholas. I've been your host for today, and I think that the competitive usage of game rules is worth considering for game design. Joining me, as usual, is the guy who wants me to join him at more tournaments, Garner.

SPEAKER_07 1:06

Hello.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Because my friend Luke has been banished to the shadow realm until he gets a new microphone. Chris is taking his place as co-host. Hey everybody. Finally, joining as a special guest of honor with an important announcement, Zess. Hello, everybody. But before we get into that, what have you guys been up to, Battletech or otherwise?

SPEAKER_07 1:25

Uh, Chris and I went down to uh Maryland for the Battle for the Bay, hosted by the Maryland Battletech Brigade. It's an Alpha Strike tournament where you get to have a little crab shack and uh have some fun fights. Absolutely. And even though Chris cheated blatantly, he uh still won't best sportsman.

SPEAKER_04 1:50

It wasn't blatant, it was a total mistake. Alright, this this needs some uh explanation.

SPEAKER_07 1:57

Um, so on the way down, I was talking about how we were we ended up talking about going hull down in Alpha Strike. Which is effectively going prone. The conversion to going prone. And so in Alpha Strike, it gives you a plus one modifier to your target number for shooting and minus one to all damage values at all range brackets, unless you have a turret.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

And so what I had brought was a skill to urban mech that has no TMM, so I plumped him up on uh top of a building and said, Hey, I'll go hull down, and so I would have a TMM of one, so and then proceeded to ignore all those other modifiers in the process.

SPEAKER_07 2:52

So he was shooting at skill two with all three damage, yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

So I mean, but in the end will never let him live it down, never, because of the sportsman thing, but yeah, in the end, I mean, like uh my opponent, uh you know, they had a wraith, and it was uh Zellbriggen type of uh event, so it was a wraith versus an urban mechan. Specifically the mission, not the event, the mission, yeah, yeah. Um and it ended up just being a situation where the Wraith was whittling down the urban mech and the urban mech was whittling down the wraith, and it happened to be that more or less at the same time, uh, they both died, or in the same round, they both died. Once Garner told me I was cheating, I went over and I told the TO I'm like, hey, you need to give my opponent their points back because it was survival. It wasn't how many kills you made, it was how many units survived. So they got a credit for my kill or for killing my Airbnb, and I revoked my credit for the raid. So I, you know, I was honorable in that regard. I cheated all the rest of the time, but that I was honorable.

SPEAKER_07 4:09

Well, yeah. Anyways, that's the story behind that. Yeah, I needed to put it out in the wild. Then maybe he'll stop winning best sportsmen. Yeah, that's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Sounds like you're a bad sport about him being a good sport. Correct. That's why I have sportsmanship trophies too.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

I never even can it's a competition for best sportsmans.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

How do you compete for the most sportsmen? Like exactly.

SPEAKER_07 4:41

Well, like I was saying at one of the like at like my first like true sportsmanship trophy that I had at like a large-scale event was at a Warhammer tournament, and I was there with this other guy, or with this group of people, and one of the other guys in the group was saying, like, we were at the awards ceremony thing, like waiting for them to do all the announcements, and like this guy was just kind of like bragging, like, yo, I've got best sports in the bag, like there's no chance like it's anybody else. Like, I've got it, I got it, whatever, whatever. I said, uh-huh, okay. And then they go and call it out, and like, best sportsman is Garner Salmons, blah blah blah. And I go up like I thank them, like I shake the hand, grab the trophy mug, start walking back, and I'm like, So who's getting best sportsman now? And then sat down.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Yikes. The next time you guys both go to an event, Chris is gonna show up and be like, here, here's some home-baked cookies for my opponent.

SPEAKER_07 5:44

No, that that's already been done. Pirate did that, I think, last time. Yeah, he put it on like a it was like a brownie cookie tray or something. Like it was weird. I I've got it. His display board was like a brownie cookie tray.

SPEAKER_06 5:56

I have better for you. Crossroads allows alcohol.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Oh dear god.

SPEAKER_05 6:03

Oh gosh, including handing it over the table to your opponent at the beginning of the match.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

So funny story. So uh that's how I look in Southern Assault, you know, uh a couple of the guys, they do an event called Crabback, and last year they were and when they killed a uh hunchback or a crab in their event, they were doing shots of fireball. It was not good for either of them.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

Uh I've been working. Uh, so I have not gotten in a match with Battletech since I think I did get in one for last season of Iliad, but I I or was it last season the season before that? Can't remember where the rotation is currently, but I basically just jumped in, took a game off Nate, and made it so that Nate would not go 5-0 and walked away.

SPEAKER_07 6:59

So where were you this season for um our current 5-0 person?

SPEAKER_04 7:06

Star Leader?

SPEAKER_07 7:08

5-0. Well, I thought we like Yeah, but I was just saying in terms of out using a name because we don't know if we'll want their name out there or not. We can just cut out this this one section right here.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

I could just insert the voice or Starleader. Because guess what? I'm gonna be talking about our little um RP combat thing in terms of my games played. So yes, I fought Star Leader.

SPEAKER_07 7:33

Oh, yeah, I forgot. You you were fighting Starleader North.

SPEAKER_05 7:37

Oh, he called himself Star Leader instead of Star Commander?

SPEAKER_07 7:42

Yes, Star Commander or Starcaster.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

I will I'll get into that. I love it, and I I'm I'm I actually just realized we're we're playing a bunch of games this weekend. I was hoping he would show up because I realized we are not done. We have to play one more game, and it has to be VIP clash, and we have to at least attempt to start playing with Zellbringen. We've got our matches done, but it's one of those just because of the way it all went down, and him claiming that he had killed my my um star captain when he hadn't. They have to fight. There has to be a VIP clash.

SPEAKER_05 8:20

Do it up. But yeah, I I've been far too busy. Uh I have not gotten in any battle tech since that one match I played uh, I think a season ago. And then other than that, it's been a Depticon. So it's uh it's been a hot minute, so we're gonna we're going to Gen Con pretty cold, but it should be fine. It'll be fine. Yeah, I mean it's it's battle tech. Like it's not like I forgot. Like riding a bike. A robot bike. What is this, trunk?

SPEAKER_03 8:52

God, no, no. Uh it I mean. Synthwave. What about synthwave?

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Music. I don't know. See the synth wave works with battle tech pretty well, so.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

Yeah. Yeah, retrofuturism. In any case. Zeth. I believe you have to do this.

SPEAKER_05 9:22

So, uh coming up here in a couple months, uh, it's going to be September 19th and 20th in Elmyra, New York. We have the Crossroads GT first time battletech grand tournament being held. So pretty excited for this. Um we have openings for 30 players. Uh, I think we're already 30% full. Uh, so and there's definitely more people signing up. You're welcome. Thanks. There's definitely a lot more people coming in too. So I think we'll hit at least um at least 20. Uh, if we hit the full 30, I'll be pretty happy. But uh, we'll see how far we get this year. Uh, next year we might be able to scale it a little bit higher too. So excited for that. But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Uh, it should be a pretty fun event, I think. Um, as everybody here knows, uh in the channel at least. Uh, it is heavily based on the Iliad League format, uh, because it's as I've said in other episodes, right? It's one of the most fun formats I've played in and one of the most uh competitive feeling formats. And so we're adapting the missions definitely and some of the uh refinements that have been made over the years into uh a very similar packet overall for a five-round tournament. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 10:41

So you know the big the big the the biggest change is that is that there that I can see going through the packet is that instead of it being bring 10,500 bv and you are have free reign before the game to build your 7,000 point list from it. Or 7,000 bv list. You said point list in here, man. That's that's some star commander level stuff right here.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Um Star Leader Z.

SPEAKER_07 11:12

But each player will build two 7,000 point lists for the event. Oof, big oof. Anyways, uh, but no, what the biggest difference is that instead of there being a 10,500 initial pool and you can create your lists on the fly, it is instead two separate 7,000 BV lists.

SPEAKER_05 11:31

Correct. So what we want to avoid, right? Uh I think we talked about this in our um one of the episodes I was in where we were discussing the difficulties of having the Ilya format in a uh a GT format, right? With having a bunch of players all meeting at once, sitting out at the tables and all trying to quickly go through uh generating the 7,000 point deployments from a 10,500-point force. Uh so to simplify it and make things faster, what we're doing for this is every player will make a list A and a list B. Uh those lists must share the same era and same faction choice. And uh each one will be built out to 7,000 points. Uh maximum of eight units, half of at least half the units must be battle mechs or omni mechs. Uh so no industrial mechs, you know, do not count for uh for patting that out. Uh they have to be full battle mechs or on this.

SPEAKER_07 12:26

I'm happy that you took that in because uh I still remember your first list of I have three mechs total of my 20 units.

SPEAKER_05 12:35

And only two, only two of the deployed ones would be mechs.

SPEAKER_06 12:38

It would never be three mechs on the field, right?

SPEAKER_05 12:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 12:43

Skimmers and salamanders everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 12:46

Uh, and then that's also part of why uh everything's being limited down to a single chassis with the exception of battle armor, just because there's so much fewer battle armor that battle armor can bring two examples in a given chassis. Uh so that way, you know, if somebody can't take a skimmer analog and just spam, you know, multiple of them, you have to find a different version within your faction. I mean, it means that there's still some of the same heavy skimmer. Heavy skimmers, right? Uh shimosh. Heavy shimosh.

SPEAKER_07 13:14

Shmosh.

SPEAKER_05 13:15

I mean, if you're going, if you're going up, like that's basically the next step up, right? Is the shimosh.

SPEAKER_07 13:20

So conveniently that those kinds of things get kind of knocked out by the minimum 200 BV.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

So right.

SPEAKER_07 13:26

Like, like, in order to bring a Savannah master, it has to be a 2-3. FYI, in case you were wondering.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Yeah, and I'm the you also stipulate that the rules that equipment for all units must be included in in Total Warfare andor the BMM. And I think that might do some work in terms of there are standard rules-level units with equipment from uh TecOps because of the way they've adjusted things. And so I'm imagining there's going to be some battle armor and vehicles that will get caught in the rule book crossfire there. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 14:07

And so I'm gonna be a couple. I think a lot of problematic things are gonna be uh removed essentially, but I mean there's still obviously ways people can abuse the this uh wisp building format, but it definitely crunches down on a lot of the extreme uh examples of that.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Now, here here's a question. This might be better in part two, but I'm gonna ask it, ask it right now. Uh we recently played in a tournament where I think the general consensus was there was a unit allowed that should not have been allowed. Even the player using it feels like it should not have been allowed, uh, but asked um in advance. I think there is even if something sneaks through the rules construction but doesn't match the spirit of the rules. Are you guys of the opinion as organizers that you would not allow it or would you want to allow it?

SPEAKER_05 14:57

If I notice something in building, uh like when people are submitting lists that seems egregious that I overlooked, I'll probably contact the player and and ask for a uh a remake. I it's possible I've missed some things here, but I I think for the most part, uh I haven't I'm curious, what was the unit that's that slipped in?

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Fireball. The 40 movement fireball.

SPEAKER_07 15:23

The fireball extra fast.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

So I mean it is an experimental mech, and it's also a unique mech, both of which are banned by correct, but to be fair, the experimental mech is only experimental because they say so.

SPEAKER_07 15:43

There is not a single piece of experimental technology on it.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

It's also unique, so we won't see fireball XFs. We might see other fireballs, but not that one.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

It's it's it's an example of it by the strict letter of the packet, it was allowed, but it definitely feels like something that should not have been allowed, doesn't necessarily match the spirit of uh the rules, I think. And like the player even said, Hey, I do have another list if this is if this doesn't work for you. I remember talking to that player, but the the to let it slip, and I I don't know. I'm I I'm conflicted on strict rules as written, or um you know, stepping to say, hey, this doesn't match what we're going for.

SPEAKER_05 16:34

Oh see, is the experimental XL gyro? What year did it come up? 37. I think it's the XL gyro might be what's pushing it to experimental.

SPEAKER_07 16:42

The XF is 100% experimental.

SPEAKER_05 16:45

My bad, yeah. I'm looking at MacBay, man. Let's wait, right? It's not the same. I brought it up real quick.

SPEAKER_07 16:51

Yep. So the if you look at the enforcer. The the egregious enforcer's advanced, the absolutely no advanced components.

SPEAKER_05 16:59

The the egregious thing with this fireball is they're using it as a charge weapon, right? Yes. So the thing here that is going to prevent this from being too much of an issue, hopefully. Uh, because I don't this fireball can't show up because it's it's unique, right? And some others are unique. Uh, is if somebody does bring some you know nuclear cruise missile uh chargebot, uh we are using TacOps charges in this format.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

So uh you're gonna have to spell out how how that works because in your packet right here, it's Total Warfare Battle Mech Manual. Um, so having rules from TacOps, either you have to have the rules for this.

SPEAKER_05 17:40

I'm gonna have laminated printouts for Taco charges because I expected to come up and I'm just gonna have it on hand because it's math. Um the way Tacops charges basically real quick works is that normally a charge is the attacker's weight divided by 10 times how many uh hexes moved, right? Delta the target and packets of five. Right? So, you know, if you have a 50-ton mech and it crossed five or ten hexes before hitting the target, it's five, well, fifty divided by ten, so five times another ten, so it comes out to 50 damage, right? And then the defender usually receives the damage of the defender's weight divided by 10, and then that's it. Tac op charges instead gives the uh attacker a PSR and then checks that PSR versus the amount of damage that or that is in the pool, and they slightly reduce the amount, but they take basically the same amount of damage that they deal. So if you take a light mech that goes 40 hexes like that fireball and spram it into something, that mech is no longer gonna exist after that first charge. So it turns charging into a desperation move on all things instead of just being uh the name of the game for some builds, which is much healthier.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

I do like uh core rules charge, it seems on the surface at least. C de fine.

SPEAKER_05 19:06

Or wait, are you talking about the new core rules coming up or the base?

SPEAKER_07 19:09

Yes, core rules, not total warfare rules. Core rules. Okay. The thing that we're picking up next week, Zess.

SPEAKER_05 19:16

Right, yeah, no. I I have not gotten to see like all the leaks on it, so I I do not know what the new charges are gonna be in there, but the uh the total war charges is one of the worst written rules in Battletech, and I absolutely hate it.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Yeah. Instead of weight divided by 10 times hexes moved, it's I think it's weight divided by 10 times team.

SPEAKER_07 19:38

Right, yes, okay, I did hear about this.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

So yeah, I mean that helps really curb it down a lot.

SPEAKER_07 19:42

Uh no, it's weight divided by five, I think.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Times team. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 19:48

So I I was looking at it, like I was like, I can still technically do 80 damage with my devastator.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Devastator's big boy, though.

SPEAKER_07 19:59

Yes. And I had calculated it out using the new formula, and it is my devastator can still do like 80 damage. The biggest change though for that for the charges is actually that, and uh, the FA's as well, is that you get credit for using your last movement.

SPEAKER_05 20:20

Oh, okay, for the one entering the hex.

SPEAKER_07 20:22

So yes, you get credit for entering the hex even though you're not in the hex yet.

SPEAKER_05 20:29

Interesting.

SPEAKER_07 20:30

So that's a that's a that's a thing that always bugged me.

SPEAKER_05 20:34

That's how most people thought it worked.

SPEAKER_07 20:35

That's something that's bugged me forever.

SPEAKER_05 20:36

I have commonly seen people make that mistake, and I I've had to break out the rule book a lot of times in competition to be like, nope, it it's how many moved before you make contact.

unknown 20:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Well, that's because you don't actually move into that last text, you pay for the movement cost to do it, but you don't actually move that move there, which so it makes sense, but also doesn't make sense. It's weird. Uh I mean because in any case, the rules packet.

SPEAKER_07 21:00

Anyways, back to the rules packet.

SPEAKER_05 21:02

Uh so I think tackle charges will help there to at least bring down chargebots too much. Uh, because you're you're gonna explode yourself. So even if something sneaks through that something can ram, it's not gonna be doing so repeatedly unless it's a big heavy that can take the damage, right? Um so I think laughs and devastator. Right. I mean, so I think it'll make a healthier build space because that way you don't just have light hunters that run around and pound lights into the dirt by ramming them.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Anyone who's played the Iliad format, anyone who's listened to the podcast and take a look at a look at it, it is very, very similar. As mentioned, it's two 7,000 lists instead of a larger force, which you then divide into 7,000 deployments. It does apply a maximum of eight units, minimum of 200 BV per unit. It is combined arms, but total warfare BMM only. So for some reason, there is a standard rules unit of vehicle or battle armor that ends up with tack ops equipment. It is a no. No V Tolls, no witch. Movement units. No Proto-Mechs. That is a separation because Ilya does currently allow Proto-Mechs, but nobody's tried them yet. So no unique units or extinct units. Zas already mentioned, it's it's faction and error locked for your for both lists. They have to be the same. One advanced unit shared between both lists. I don't think we've talked about that.

SPEAKER_05 22:22

No, so and when I say shared between the lists, the two lists do not need to both have that advanced unit. So let's say somebody wants to take a wolf in, right? Which has an XXL engine, and so therefore it isn't advanced. So if somebody wants to take a wolf in prime, I don't know why you would, but let's say somebody does. So you put that in list A. You cannot now put a savage wolf in list B, which also has an XXL, and so it was also advanced. Uh you could, if you wanted to, include that Wolffin in list B, but you could just emit the Wolfin from list B if you want and build it completely different. Uh but that way, you know, there there is some interesting mechs that are now available with that single advanced mech you can bring. Or sorry, actually, it's it's it's a single advanced unit. So you can actually bring something that's advanced that is not a mech. Uh a big caveat with that though is if you want to bring hardened armor, uh hardened armor rules, I believe, are not in Total Warfare VMM for vehicles. I believe they're in uh TacOps equipment. They are. Yeah. That is where they are. So uh like it's so you can bring a hardened hardened armor vehicle, but you could bring you know a vehicle with XXLs or um uh uh sorry, uh Feralamular armor or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

It's gonna be important, uh for people out there, it's gonna be very important to be familiar with the rules for all of the equipment on your units, because it's not easy to just look up a unit and see that it's compliant with T T you know Total Warfare and BMM. Uh mech Bay, as far as I'm aware, doesn't really specify that. So you just have to make sure that as you're looking through the unit, you know where the rules are for each piece of an equipment. Um it's a thing that a lot of people struggle with.

SPEAKER_07 24:10

The Battle Mech manual has a literally like a two pages where you can just look and scan and see all the equipment that's in the book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Right, and I I do like that part, but we're talking about for a combined arms. So if you see see a vehicle, like like Zex was saying, a vehicle with hardened armor, you have to go, well, where is vehicle hardened armor rules? It's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

I mean, so mech bay does make this a little bit easier uh for people to check on their own. So if you because if you do look at a unit in Mech Bay and you have it selected and you're looking at the uh the overview, right? If you mouse over, you know, let's say uh in ATM12 here, it'll tell your references and what page uh those things are on the reference. The problem is I think it uses the earliest ones, so like a lot of weapons will show up in like tech manual. Yeah, your small laser says page 226 in TM, which is tech manual, pretty sure. So I think I I think everything in tech manual is in the man. Yeah, if it says tech manual, it's gonna be pretty common, but uh not always.

SPEAKER_07 25:12

Because like boosted boosted C3 is the rules and everything are in tech manual. But it does not exist in Total Warfare.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

I I I have I I understand the core rules as needed. I have can I have I vocalized concerns about it, but also at the end of the day, I think it will make life easier to just not have to which books are which and what's in the what now and who's the who's it all.

SPEAKER_05 25:43

Yeah, I mean I think Battletech's definitely in a location where it needs to streamline a little bit, but it's mainly needs to streamline its reference guides, right? Like the rulebooks need to be a little bit easier to read and a little bit more concise and not have to go through five different books to get through one interaction on the board, right? But there are definitely times you're you're flipping through multiple rulebooks trying to get through all the interactions on a single board, and it can be a little bit much.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

I I still think support units should have been in the uh effectively a campaign book instead of a core book, but that's that's just me. Uh ammunition adjustments, you know, players are freely allowed to swap certain things, but unlike Iliad, where you can swap one of each kind of ammunition, one one of each bin to a different kind of alternate, you've specified that a unit can swap one ton each. So for uh it looks here, for example, uh a unit with a standard autocannon could switch one if they had five tons of ammunition, they could only switch one ton out and only one ton for armor-piercing, caseless, or precision.

SPEAKER_05 26:56

Yes. So curve curbs a little bit of the precision spam that some units that are we all know the notorious ones, right? There are some that just have tons of bins of ammo and can run basically those as pulse lasers. Uh, but to also prevent that being a bit too much of a thing, because this there is a 40-point pulse cap in the event. Uh precision ammo is going to count as uh pulse against that limit. So if you if you precision ammo a AC20, it will count as 20 damage a pulse. But you could bring armor piercing on that AC20. And so I I imagine we will see a lot of armor piercing ammo, which will be interesting considering the uh counter effects it has to like hardened armor, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

So yeah, like we we've we've seen something similar. So and then missiles, inferno, semi-guided.

SPEAKER_05 27:50

And I would like to say though, uh that mechs can only swap one unit of specialty munitions, right? Or one ton across the entire mech. Uh, but that if they have normal munitions, or at least what I consider to be more normal. So if you have like LBX ammo, say you have uh a mech that has one ton of LBX and it has an LBX solid and you want cluster, you are able to freely swap LBX solid to cluster or vice versa, MML SRM to MML LRM, or vice versa. ATM, uh your mix of HE standard ER, any ATM ammo can be swapped out for another version of ATM ammo. Uh only HE standard ER, no magpulse or uh improved inferno. Uh and then LRM, SRM ammo can be swapped for Narc enabled LRM SRM ammo freely.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

So yeah, I'm pretty sure. While I ATMs are technically advanced, every unit with ITMMs is rated experimental on the mole. So that should not be a code.

SPEAKER_07 28:51

Not me because I was looking at society things in the slightest.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Uh IATMs, I'm they are very very good weapon systems.

SPEAKER_07 29:04

I just wish they w I just wish they weren't on every piece of society equipment.

SPEAKER_05 29:09

It is unfortunate. It makes it very samey, right?

SPEAKER_07 29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

I I I say I IATMs are a contender for the best weapon in the game. Per VB or just just example of weapon? Just in just example of a weapon. Not not maybe not for the BV cost. That gets him into more complex argument, but gun to gun IATMs are.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

It is hard to argue against an IATM 12. I mean the fact it's streak, so you don't have to worry about ammunition expenditure expenditure, right? Or heat, it's MN all hit. It's uh really good. It it's it's hard to argue against that. And that's before we even look at the you know the magpoles.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

And one last thing here, we were about to get to it, but LRM SRM you can freely swap to narc capable.

SPEAKER_07 30:01

Which is a really good thing because some some events have been saying that like you can only swap one ton of ammo. But the interesting thing of note, mechs that even come with a narc beacon launcher don't come loaded with narc ammo.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

That so that's going to actually depend on on the software you get the record sheets. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_07 30:27

It's not about the software. I'm saying the actual official record sheets.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Do not say Narc ammo.

SPEAKER_07 30:35

The software auto-enables it because why would you be running a narc beacon thing without running narc equipment? But that's when they came up at Southern Assault. Somebody was running the Narc Storm Pro. Like, yeah, one ton of Narc ammo, because we're only allowed to swap one ton of ammo to something else, and so I swapped it to Narc.

SPEAKER_05 30:53

Yeah, and see, and that that feels very feels bad, right? So it I felt like if people are using Narc, it doesn't have a BB cost associated with it of switching it. Uh I I feel like therefore should be fully narc enabled, especially since Narc is so easily countered, right? Um, a single ECM on the field on the enemy side, your narc is probably useless. Uh, unless if you have your own ECM and are crossing bubbles, right? But I I think it's a healthy change, especially since Narc really is not used to that often.

SPEAKER_07 31:21

I know it's very strong in Alpha Strike, but I'm just saying I've tried to make Narc work in Classic, and it requires a hell of a lot of hoops to jump through.

SPEAKER_05 31:33

Yep, and I I don't think throwing in, you know, an arbitrary ammunition requirement on it uh is needed. Narc is in in some cases great, but it it's it's not egregious like semi guided is, right? So semi-guided can be in specific situations, yeah. Players are also able to pre-dump ammunition bins. So uh I know one one complaint in my local community is uh a couple guys recently were playing a game with Mega Mech uh just to try and get some practice in. And I was on comms with them uh the other night, and the one with the Pixie 18, or sorry, Pixie-1, right? Uh Phoenix Hawk uh had the ammunition get tacked and it exploded and was was complaining. He's like, This is why I hate ammo, like the dumb machine guns on this thing. And uh so players are allowed to dump the ammo uh in list creation.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

So if are they allowed to dump and play as you normally would? Yeah, of course. More regularly.

SPEAKER_05 32:41

But it has yep, yep. Well, I I think it's going away in the new core rules, but core warfare allows it. And as much as I would like to play this on the new core rules, uh, there's just considering the the gap in time of you know uh less than two months between uh the new rules and stuff going out and the event, I don't want people to be worried about finding the rule books, reading through all the rule books, internalizing all the changes, and then trying to make a list and play through those new changes. So we're just we're just gonna play this event under Total Warfare, and then next year we'll be playing standard rules.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

And then on top of that, you're playing combined arms, so you're still not abandoning Total Warfare or everything else, and you're adding the comp you know the the headache on top of that of people reading one book thinking that's still in place, but not if yeah, that is way too much of a headache so early on to try to do that.

SPEAKER_05 33:41

There's also that we just don't know if people are even gonna be able to get their hands on the book, right? So say you want to come to Crossroads, and if we were gonna play by the new new new core rule book, and you are not going to Gen Con or don't have friends going to Gen Con, and just your retailers are all sold out, and you're you can't get it one for whatever reason, because we don't know if we at least be able to get one. I just I just don't want that to be an issue for people to worry about getting their hands on the new book right before tournament. Let's say it's a bit of a last hurrah for uh for Total Warfare, I suppose.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Yeah, I know Arno our plans are to abandon Total Warfare and switch to core rules just mech next year. Because people people say, oh, you know, they're not going to take Total War away from you, you can still play with full rules vehicles. And my thought is if we're having a format that people can enter, I am not having newer new players have to buy a digital copy of a book that's no longer in print that's going to just confuse them and going to be replaced. It doesn't make it doesn't make sense to me to require people to learn rules that they're just going to have to like pay money and learn rules that they're just going to have to abandon and only for this format that they're playing necessarily. Um it it just it it doesn't it doesn't make sense to me. It's like I'm I wouldn't require somebody if I'm playing DD 3.5 I wouldn't in an in a certain sense I wouldn't necessarily require them to buy a 3.0 book is is is the thing. I can still as a dungeon master in my own private sense go ahead and use that and adapt that as I want, but on a on a public face, it it doesn't see it doesn't feel right to me as an or as an organizer.

SPEAKER_05 35:28

So yeah, we'll have to see where it goes next year because I I do not want to abandon battle armor or vehicles. Um I feel like they are a very interesting part of battle tech. But uh so we'll we'll have to see where where it goes for for next year. Once I get through the core rule book and read through it and see what options we might have. Um we'll see what modifications I have to make to the packet.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Yeah, I just I do not like support vehicles for competition. Support assets just it just does not it they do not feel like a fit to competition.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

Oh, you mean the uh battlefield support, right? Yeah, no, I I will never include uh battlefield support of any any kind in a crossroads ever.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

Yeah, we we are basically in agreement on on that. I I'm not opposed necessarily we've had long discussions about a secondary economy and how it implement for things like allowing a secondary economy to do ammunition and skill changes, artillery shots, and whatnot. And I'm not entirely sold on it, but I'm not entirely opposed to it at the moment. Um, it's something we'll have to figure out next year.

SPEAKER_07 36:47

I'm just saying you're making battle armor king. You're making stormbirds specifically king. It's gonna be all green birds.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Wait, Nicholas is making a Garter just Garter just wants to find a way to get rid of my battle armor.

SPEAKER_07 37:07

No, specifically heavy battle armor. That's fire resistant. Specifically, fire resistant heavy battle armor is oppressive.

SPEAKER_05 37:16

It is a bit of a problem. Uh, because the the classic, you know, kill it with infernos obviously doesn't work at all. Uh which is it which is where I am considering allowing artillery weapons.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Um because it does help to uh to curb that. Garner hates heavy battle armor and flippy arms, and what do I play with a lot of?

SPEAKER_07 37:38

No, the only things you play with. Because there's no downside to not having a lower arm actuated. Yeah. There is only upside.

SPEAKER_05 37:49

It really is 99% upside, right? If you if you do not plan the punch, there is no downside.

SPEAKER_07 37:55

And even planning to punch, most things that have weapons in their arms aren't gonna be punching.

SPEAKER_05 38:01

Exactly. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

Like, it's like very, very rare you'd want to anyway. Especially when you can just kick. I do enjoy my flippy arms. I do enjoy it. I mean, I also play clan.

SPEAKER_05 38:12

I mean, most of the things I deploy have no lower arm actually.

SPEAKER_07 38:16

Because it's forced in OmniMec construction. Yeah, I mean it just happens either way.

SPEAKER_05 38:19

Anyway, uh, I feel like you guys next episode should just go on about uh the issues of every person on this building.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Yeah, there might be an episode upcoming of what we would change if we were in charge of core, and Garner is going to rant about uh how not having lower armor actuators should like make your mech mech be crippled automatically or something. Just out of spikes.

SPEAKER_07 38:47

I've never once been spiteful in rules situations.

SPEAKER_05 38:52

There there should be a penalty to it. It should be a plus one.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Oh. I I think I do like the TacOps rule or whatever it is that is, it makes it more difficult to stand. That makes sense to me. It's like a like a plus one, plus two to your standing attempt PSRs. That that makes a lot of sense to me of like, yeah, you've got you've got nubs that can flip behind you. That's gonna make it a lot harder like to try to stand up with gun barrels. Jumping a bit on back on tasker though.

SPEAKER_05 39:27

Um do you guys have any other comments on list building? I think we might have skipped a few things after we hit the advanced thing. I think we switched straight to ammo.

SPEAKER_07 39:35

So the yeah, well, we also didn't mention that, because I didn't even realize that that there was no artillery strikes able to be purchased, which is a deviation from Iliad.

SPEAKER_05 39:48

It is something I considered uh maintaining, uh, but it's also something a lot of players are not used to.

SPEAKER_07 39:55

Just don't know how to, yeah, don't know how to there'd be a lot more issues with it. I'm just saying in general though that like that is that to be clear, that is a that is a change from Iliad that is not reflected.

SPEAKER_05 40:05

One of the biggest reasons though why I did not is because the uh the map uh sheets that I have don't have numbers on them. Because we're we're building custom boards, right? So like uh it's it's too difficult to um for people to secretly write down the pre-plots, is what I realized. And I was like, uh crap, right? Like it's uh it's gonna be really hard for people to confirm what it is because the only way you would be able to do it is indexing it from the corners or something like that, right? Is like, oh, it's it's three three hexes from the short edge and then four hexes over from the long edge, right? On on your left corner, which which is possible, but yeah, and then some of the miscount. It's just it's it's possible that it'd be tricky. So I mean, I might be okay with that, but uh it's definitely a thought for next time.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 41:00

Uh because like Garner said, right, uh, I am well aware of the fact of uh heavy and assault battlesuits with fire resistant armor are very oppressive to deal with if you do not have artillery.

SPEAKER_07 41:12

Give me Apollo 5 MRMs from core rules, please.

SPEAKER_05 41:18

Part of me also just wants to let this is like kind of let a few wild things go into this and see what people do with it. See how creative people get in this building.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

You can be the final arbiter of that. Um, my opinion is let people go wild for the first one slash the possible last hurrah of total warfare.

SPEAKER_05 41:37

And yeah, if it's a problem, we'll we'll work for it for next year.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

So uh again, I've I've stated many times my opinion on battle armor is biased because I am the doer, I'm rarely ever the receiver.

SPEAKER_05 41:49

Yeah, we had a uh discussion on it in a uh like a corning guys basically chat the other day. And um some of the guys are saying how like they they thought battle armor was too strong, but they they were talking more of like suits that can actually swarm. Um so the complaints were more towards like salamanders, uh Baroques, well, Baroques don't swarm, but um lighter suits, not assault suits. And uh I I get some of the complaints they have, but like when it comes to suits that do their damage through swarming, the the opponent has to give an opening for those to be offensively useful, right? If they're not just zoning the opponent, because normally what's gonna happen is the opponent's gonna see where they can go and be zoned out by that battle armor's threat, or you initiative order it or something like that, right? Where you can you can curb the threat down a little bit and you have to make a mistake or make a choice as a player that allows that salamander, for example, to get into swarming distance of some other mech.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Yep. And the other thing is swarming is I I put swarming in a similar vein as a an aimed shot with a targeted computer of so often I'm just like, yes, this is gonna be great, I'm going to do it. And it's a whiff. I've brought Salamanders many times, I've attempted swarming many times, and it pretty much for at least for me, never really pays off. Versus my storm birds always pay for themselves.

SPEAKER_05 43:23

Why using stormbirds anyway? Or jade falcon. Those are those are for my ravens.

SPEAKER_07 43:27

Because the Jade Falcon retro retrofit of them are stupid.

SPEAKER_05 43:31

I know. I'm I'm well aware of the Jade Falcon fit for them.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Or of their SRM3 with AP Goss Fire Resistance, baby. Well, we'll I'll I'll talk about my Stormbird list uh when we get into games played here. Uh so Packet, you know, looks like you are it's a five round Swiss tournament.

SPEAKER_05 43:55

So um, you know, you'll be matched up with other players who are. Uh having so much success to yourself, right? One complaint I have of some of the tournaments I've been to, so specifically the open format when it comes to battle tech, is that it is not Swiss. So in the last I've played three opens. And I lost a game in the first open I played a couple years ago at uh at Gen Con. And then other than that, I've never lost a battle uh in an open. Actually, that's the last time I lost a game of battletech, I think. And that was two years ago. Uh a guy got a hit on an 11 up on one of my mechs with a Goss rifle when it turned on the leg and then got limb blown off, and I was out of edge. So uh and then I missed every shot uh with ATM 9s into his back on his assault mech with uh seven ups to hit. So that was a great time.

SPEAKER_06 44:49

Yeah, but I mean there's a reason why I say my luck's usually pretty crap back too.

SPEAKER_05 44:53

So um so other than that though, I I've never lost a match in the open. And um I like usually don't get podium or uh I've gotten second because I don't face the other people who are getting tons of points, right? Because they just match people against anybody. So you can have somebody who gets maximum points in round one, gets a hundred points, and then they'll match up against somebody who uh is a newer player or something like that, and and lost in their first round when they should be playing somebody else who won, right? And so somebody might have a really low strength of schedule, but it doesn't matter because it just goes by the score.

SPEAKER_07 45:31

Yeah. So I don't like that. I'm in the of the opposite mindset.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

Oh I'll I'll add my my two cents here in a minute. I know, Garner, you're going to make the the the points, the the advocate for points. So my position, the I've I've heard arguments and I I feel where I'm somewhere in the middle where when you have a lower match count and a lower turnout, having pairings and and placement based on points makes sense. But once you get to the point where you do have five rounds and uh 32 players, I think having Swiss really makes sense at that point. But when you have less than that, when you can't get a full five games in, I points makes more sense to me. So but if your your blur your plan is is five rounds and 30 not 32. I'm curious why 30 not 32.

SPEAKER_05 46:24

Uh I think we actually we can actually go up to 32 uh if if it fills. I think Cory just thought 30 and put 30 as a limit, but I'm pretty sure I'm sure we can get two more spaces if it fills. And then we'll have a full 32, which obviously um if we can fill the full 32, obviously that well may not obviously, but 32 is the magic number where over the course of five rounds you come down to a single winner, right? So um or a single undefeated player. If you if you have people match up against each other, uh you know, after the first round, you're down to 16, then eight, uh, then four, then two, and then it's your your final uh match, right? And you have one undefeated player at the end. So I'm sure we can find two more seeds.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

Yeah. Yeah, I think at 32, doing Swiss makes sense. Under 32, I'm kind of leaning, leaning towards like points. Or if you're doing a three-game tournament, like trying to get three games in one day, I I think having points there makes sense. Like I think they both are very valid depending on how you structure things. But Garner, now that you've done chewing and unwrapping, I think it's the other way around.

SPEAKER_07 47:35

Um I think if it's three or less, Swiss makes more sense because you can get less awkward skews, but I think that playing for points makes the quality of player better. Because, like, think about it, like if you think you're gonna be losing, you kind of like are giving up and you're not like if you are trying to maximize your points because you can still have a shot at doing something and like podium finishing, like it will eventually make you a better player because then learning how to play from the back foot is so much of a better skill to have than dominating while dominating. And you can't learn that if you're not trying to get the points, and this forces you to learn that. So overall, it will raise the lower bar of players who keep going to these events.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

But I mean, I think I just I just know there there are there's also the the inverse of that of people who kind of play a bit uh uh scummy to maximize points. You know, that it isn't just a universal positive. I do think even in a Swiss format, having some kind of reward podium type placement for score can help do that, do that same positive benefit, but not have people, you know, actively do whatever it is people sometimes do to maximize their scores you know, coordinate to double max or whatever the heck goes on sometimes. I I really was very confused and disturbed by the the players who constantly were going past the hundred point limit um at the tournament last tournament I played in, where like I did something did not feel right about that to me.

SPEAKER_05 49:46

So given more time, I I was considering actually trying to make this a blackjack system. Uh for if you're not can you explain that? Yeah, so blackjack means that in any given match, uh there's 21 points. So depending on your performance versus the other player, those 21 points are going to be uh divided up between the two of you.

SPEAKER_07 50:07

So I know exactly what you're talking about. That's how Southern Assault does their like the Southern Assault Alpha Strike does it. And I think that that is a terrible system for seeing how good people are.

unknown 50:22

Sorry.

SPEAKER_07 50:22

Anyways, continued explanation. That was that was just me being uh ignore me.

SPEAKER_03 50:27

Uh usually how black Garner popping in with the head.

SPEAKER_05 50:30

So, like for example, Kings of War, uh, which is going to be being played alongside this, right? Uh the Kings of War Tournament, and most Kings of War tournaments are all played under blackjack systems. So uh how it is is like you when you go through and you have your objectives and you tally objectives and things like that, uh, whoever wins is going to be labeled as win, draw, lose. And so you'll get a certain number of points uh based on if you win, Drew, or lose. And then there's an attrition modifier based on how much you destroyed of the enemy and how much you lost. And then the difference between that is is checked against a table, and then there's a modifier for that. So you can gain points or lose points based on um if you you know uh had a lot of kills or had a lot of losses. And so if you completely sweep the floor with somebody and get like all the objectives and uh wipe their their force off the table, like you'll be getting 21 points, right? Or like a 19, 20, 21 point is a really strong game in blackjack. Uh, but more usually people will be getting like a 15-14 point win.

SPEAKER_07 51:33

So my counter to this is that say, for example, that you and I hit each other round one in a blackjack event, we both knock ourselves out of the running.

SPEAKER_05 51:54

Oh, because um we have a very close game.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

If we have a close game because it's based on if it's a 10-11 type of score, is it?

SPEAKER_05 52:07

Yeah, we have both knocked each other like so you're saying that because people could uh face a weaker player and get 21 points, right, and then be in the lead. Is what you're saying, right?

SPEAKER_07 52:18

Right. And then be in and then be in the lead, but then if you're playing against somebody else, like then you've got two skilled people playing against each other, and it is a to the last moment, like like I said, a 11 versus 10 point. So now your points differential is a barely a win. You have now effectively two people out of the running.

SPEAKER_03 52:46

I do think that's that kind of logic does still apply to a points-based model. I was just thinking how you're right that the the you know, you're you're playing a match, you're both trying to win points. The the player at the on the losing side can still try to earn points and still podium. But it also means that if you have two skilled players that are you know very skilled, but on a more even playing phone, they're both struggling to earn points, it means they're going to be penalized for having a fair match versus versus not, you know?

SPEAKER_07 53:20

But the it's more often than not that you're gonna be penalized for having a fair match in this case than not. And the prime example that I will is my the last round of Motor City when I played against Bill. We were like 10 points away from each other out of 100. He had 90-ish, I had 80-ish. And that points differential is very minuscule. So if you compress that down, it looks like neither of us did anything in our game.

SPEAKER_05 53:53

Right when you come out of blackjack, right? One of you gets like a 10-point game, the other one gets 10 weapons, right? Or something like that.

SPEAKER_07 53:57

Right. Exactly. Yes, precisely.

SPEAKER_04 54:00

Although, I mean, well, if you win though, it's definitely worth it.

SPEAKER_05 54:03

So I mean, like, if you if you're that close, it's probably gonna be more like one of you is gonna come out with like a 15-point, the other one's gonna come out with a six. It depends on what the attrition is. There's there's upsides and downsides to any system you use, right? But so if you're worried about a player's getting a runaway in the first game, consider that anybody that gets a 21-point game is now gonna be playing other players that got 21 points. And they're gonna be playing at the top of the field for all four rounds of the rest of the tournament.

SPEAKER_07 54:34

Well, the I mean that happens with yeah, but that also happens with points only. Like I again I bring your mosaic because this is the only time that I've they had this happen where I actually scored. My lowest score out of a hundred was 79. And I podiumed in that because I still was getting points. And I was fighting even though I was losing. And I feel like you don't get that in a blackjack system because you will knock each other out.

SPEAKER_05 55:19

Well, so for my plans for for this crossroads, it it is gonna be uh basically whoever if you're win-loss and then uh points. So because one player should go undefeated through the tournament, that the whoever doesn't lose a match should be the person that's gonna get championed, and then the rest of the points are gonna be sussed out with points.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

I would say, I mean, to kind of return to the topic of of scoring and and rankings and stuff, I mean, you have to decide what is your goal. If your goal is to find out who is the best player by win-loss record, clearly the methods with scoring and and going down that road will achieve that. If you're trying to find out, like, you know, can somebody come back from uh uh potentially a first round loss, but still continue to accumulate more points overall, you want to go with a point system. Com combining the two as you what you're doing, I think makes a lot of sense. It it really is gonna depend on your goal. If you're just looking for having fun uh or a more casual competitive event, you lean heavier, I think, on scoring and balance out between like you as you've done like objectives and attrition, playing with those percentages to determine how you're gonna kind of come up with a score. That's I mean, various events I think mix those three components and come up with a ranking system based off what they're looking for. What it sounds like you're looking for Swiss is the right answer.

SPEAKER_05 57:02

Yeah, because I I think yeah, whoever goes undefeated should take down the trophy, right? Like if you've won every match, you're you're taking the trophy. Um then you know yes.

SPEAKER_03 57:15

So I was gonna say, like, yeah, and then some kind of some kind of prize podium for top score.

SPEAKER_05 57:20

Yeah, there's gonna be there's gonna be a number of trophies. I think we have six trophies planned. So um one of the things I'm also trying to do right now is I'm trying to find a way because somebody managed it uh to get official 3D prints of mechs for the trophies. Because I I wouldn't want to I would like to have like actual catalyst model prints. Uh I I know they're not gonna send me the STLs for them, but uh it's something I'm gonna ask Randall for uh when I when I meet up with them next week.

SPEAKER_03 57:51

Yeah. There are specifically certain agents and members of I think camo specs who have access to the 3D print files so that they can do uh specific things for that. And so there are there are agents who are able able to do that and have been given the those files. So I mean you can ask Randall, also send it out to Michael, um, and try to get that because like it is a it is a very specifically a Camel Specs thing. So I've talked to P talked to agents who have done that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 58:28

Because I think that would just be pretty cool, especially if we can get like, I don't know, maybe the the Madcat Mark II or some of the newer stuff, perhaps. But um just having official models as the trophies would be would be kind of nice. Uh and then the other thing, because I think we're pretty much through um the packet here for the GT itself, is there is another event being held at Crossroads as well after the GT. And that is the McGuire Blood Rite.

SPEAKER_07 59:01

Let me clarify, after day one.

SPEAKER_05 59:03

After day one, yes. Uh so I mean a big a big thing of uh Crossroads is that this is kind of just a big party. Uh people usually get there on Friday, help set up, and then it's open gaming for uh late late into the night, people will be there uh drinking, eating, playing games, board games, uh practicing their lists for the next day, whatever. Um because there's usually like a hundred players there for Kings of War. I think this year they're captain.

SPEAKER_07 59:32

Which, by the way, is is actually the norm for non-convention events.

SPEAKER_05 59:39

Yeah, of just having a bunch of slides.

SPEAKER_07 59:42

Yeah. About having just being like a a big party where people are just hanging out like outside, like not doing like at conventions, like you'll have like the open play areas and stuff, but it's a lot there's a lot more like you know, browsing at the going to check out the vendor halls, whatever, whatever. Like those are kind of like bigger situations, whereas if you're at a more specialized like tournament format, like Crossroads or Southern Assault or something, you like it's more pared down, you have less window lookers running around, yeah, stuff like that. So it ends up being just like everybody knows everybody and everybody's having fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:21

Yep, and the uh the culture that has been cultivated at Crossroads over the last 22 years that it's been held, uh, it's it's really, really cool. Uh everybody there is awesome to be around. Uh, you're gonna hear a lot of laughing. There, there's a lot of people sharing drinks all the time. Uh, it's it's really some of the best gaming people I've ever met in my life. And I've been going to Crossroads now since 20, or yeah, 2018, when I first got pulled into it. And I think bringing uh some battletech into that will be will be pretty cool because some of them are also battletech players, so there's gonna be a little bit of um uh overlap. And having the McGuire trial travel of blood right after both of the um uh tournaments wrap up their day one will allow some of those players to come over and play as well. So I'm looking forward to it because it's that's also gonna be 32 players for the Travel of Blood Rite. Um I think we're gonna be charging. When's the Grand Melee? There is no Grand Melee. It so if it gets to the point where it's that big and we need a melee, we'll hold the melee on Friday night. Is is what we might do for years going forward. If there's enough interest in it, then we'll definitely do that. But uh but uh definitely looking forward to uh hosting this uh this blood right. Uh for context, if anybody's not aware, uh last year at Gen Con, I I won the Trial of Blood Rite, and it was the Trial of Blood Rite that I got to choose a new blood name to cast into the lore. And so they're they're still working on figuring out how they're going to make it into a canon blood name. Uh it might be a couple years down the line. I I did talk to Randall about it. I'm like, hey, are there any plans yet for it? And he's like, not yet. And I'm like, it's gonna be a couple years, isn't it? He's like, yeah. Um so there there are plans for them to use it somehow, but I named it after my buddy who passed away uh about five years now. Um who was Jamie McGuire, one of my best friends in gaming for 10 years, uh, and missed him a lot. So when that tribal blood rite came up at Gen Con and had the opportunity to put the name down as his last name, and it was it's not a pre-existing blood name. We we we double-checked the uh the list of the blood names for all the clans. There is no mcuire, and so went there, won it, uh declared that mcuire would be the new blood name, and uh, I feel like it'll be fun to every year at Crossroads have a uh a trial blood rite for the McGuire blood name. So this will be the first annual McGuire Trial of Blood Right at Crossroads.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

That's very cool. I think it'll be very cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:07

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So uh we are modifying the trial blood rite a little bit though. Uh normally there's a hunter-hunted uh aspect when it comes to a blood right. Uh, we are just going to remove that segment, which it feels a little wrong because that's it is part of the fun of a travel of blood rite, but it's also a big factor sometimes of unfair matches. Yeah, so the other issue is that we're gonna have so much so many boards already preset, already all set up. We're probably not gonna have room to clear them all and then try and reset them for the next day because I'd be there too late at night and then back there too early in the morning, and trying to get too many paper sheets around for people to set up the paper sheets the normal way that the bloodright's done. So instead, what's going to happen is uh there will be a 32 mech draft. So there's going to be 32 mechs that are going to be out on paper. So this is gonna be a paid event. It'll be separate from the $45 for buying into the GT. Uh, I think it's gonna be $15 uh dollars to buy into the uh the bloodright. Uh, but you will walk away with mechs, right? So like you're going to play with prepainted mechs. So you go through, uh, we'll have a draft. Everybody's gonna be put into an order of 31 to 32nd, uh, probably by drawing chips. So those chips will have a number on them. You'll look at it if you're first, you get to pick first, right? Go through an order until all 32 are drafted, and then those 32 players are going to be matched against each other, and it is a single round elimination. So instead of rolling Hunt or Hunted as you normally do in a blood right, uh, instead, every time you get to a table, uh, those players will uh in secret pick one of the mechs they have in their pool currently. So the first round is just whatever mech you picked is going up against whoever you got matched against, right? Uh, but every round you win, you claim the mech the other person used. So let's say that Nicholas and I are playing, right? And I have a Timberwolf, and we'll say Nicholas has uh one of his favorite mechs, a black laner, right? And that Nicholas kills me and goes on to the next round. Nicholas will now going into that round to have a black laner and my timber wolf, and we'll be able to pick either one of the two when they match against their second opponent. You'll you'll share what you have, you'll both take your your uh your sheets back, and then you'll both put down a record sheet, right, face down, and the other person will know what the other person picked, you'll reveal at the same time, and then you'll go from there. So instead of having the hunter role where the hunter gets to choose both players' mechs, the players will instead get to choose their own mechs after they're assigned a table. Uh, because we'll just use the existing tournament tables as the um as the blood right tables.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:49

I I had to pause and be like, what mech is he going to be? I just I had to give you the black.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:53

I could have said you know Turkina or or something, but uh Oh, there there are plenty of options.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

I I do have. Have my own uh it's a howler.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:02

Uh so Nicholas will actually not be uh there's only gonna be first through 31st when it comes down to picking the mechs, and that Nicholas is just gonna be handed as 32nd uh howler. I'll do it, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

Don't care.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Only the double version or the any howler.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:26

The punch bot one that he loves. Yeah, yes, please, yeah. I'll I'll do it with a negative one zero pilot.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:35

Yeah, the problem then is if he wins any matches, he gets that negative one zero pilot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

Oh, I know. Yeah, but I start off with a howler.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:47

First Mackie plays Tomahawk seat. Yikes.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

Don't care. I'm just I'm just gonna be jump jumping punching, jump punch monkey. Don't give me the map without trees, because I will die.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:02

Sounds like that's the exact map to give you. So that way you can't ever be a negative one-zero in a tomahawk sea. I think all of this is making sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:11

No, that so actually the goal is because normally in a blood right, right, we you choose your mech, and the the mech already has a pilot, and that becomes you, right? And then so as you go forward, uh, if you have a better pilot skill than a mech that you killed in combat, and you enter that mech for the next match, you would normally overwrite your pilot skill over the other person's pilot skill, right? So if you you know picked a 2-2 pilot for your first mech and then you kill something that was a 4-5, then oh no, you're in a bloodass with a 2-2 pilot. I I want to try and avoid that. So, what I'm trying to do right now with some external help is the entire pool of 32 mechs, my plan is to have them all be 3-4s. I'm trying to find a balanced pool of mechs where everything is a 3-4, and it's gonna be a little bit more um even than when people start jumping between mechs. So that way you don't have somebody that starts out with like you know, a crazy 2-2 pilot in a medium or something like that, wins an assault mech, and then can just pick that assault mech for every single match going forward, right? Uh, I want to have some some balance so that way it's not like, oh, you got in, you lucked into the the the roguelike god run, right? Of there's a direwolf E that you now have a a 2-3 pilot in, and you're just gonna run that direwolf e your master.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:25

Well, there has to be something there. There has to be a direwolf E in this because it is the McGuire Bloodright. So like you've already cursed yourself.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:33

So the Direwolf E is gonna be the trophy. Ah for those not aware, um the the canon mech I chose for uh for Jamie Maguire, who's gonna become a canon pilot in in Battletech, is is gonna be a direwolf, but specifically a direwolf E configuration.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:53

So which is why Garner's saying there's gotta be one.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:59

Yeah, it's gotta be in there.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:02

I feel like it's too good. It's too good. It would uh it would kill everything. At three, four, yeah. No, four, too many, too many medium pulse. It breaks the pulse limits. You remember the there's maximum 40 point pulse limit, it breaks it on its own. Yeah. But yeah, the trophy will be a direct. Oh, before we get too far though, um, the reason why this event will cost about 15 bucks uh is because you will walk away with at least one mech. So there will be pre-painted mechs, like we said, in the draft. So if you're in round one and you lose, you are going to lose that pre-painted mech to your opponent. However, there is gonna be mechs on the side, and you will you will go home with a mech from the event.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:43

Uh but and if you see ones with straight lines on them, you'll know who painted them.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:49

Yes, because I uh I am uh probably gonna outsource some of the painting to other people in the community. So uh Garner has agreed to help me paint some of the mechs. Is there is there a clan wolf unit that has a uh because they should probably all be clan wolf jobs.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:04

It's the beta uh beta galaxy. Some of the artwork has one red, thin red line, like a blood stripe. There we go. He found the stripes already. Don't worry, I found the striped wolf unit because I was looking at that because Garner Korinsky is a clan wolf pilot. Don't worry, I've already gone through this.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:24

No. Now I just gotta convince everyone else who paints to also add stripes. Just so you don't know. Just it's like, you know who did it?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:35

Anyone. I was thinking of also putting in a couple mechs that are painted in BWMC colors. Uh, because BWMC is supposed to be like secretly affiliated with uh the clan wolf. So I might I might slip a couple BWMC mechs in there.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:51

Timu Wolf Dragoons. Secretly. Timu Wolf Dragoons.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:54

It's not really Wolf's Dragoons. It's more of like when they need to screw with another clan and uh need it to be more black ops and uh need it to be uh uh what's for them with you mean do to the clans what wolf's dragoons did to the sphere?

SPEAKER_07 1:11:09

Sounds to me remarkably like dragons. Let's draw black ops. Sounds to me remarkably like what is the word called? The wolf dragoons that uh mom says we have at home.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:24

Uh where where you can say that you didn't do it because they false flagged it or something else. Plausible deniable deniability. That's the word I remember. Rock Shasta Dragoons. Yes. It's basically a plausible deniability unit. Anything climb wolf needs done that they need to be unmarked, the BWMC goes it does. So J Falcon paper.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

Even better.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:51

So yeah, uh, very, very excited for the blood ray. I think it'll be a lot of fun. Uh, I'm probably gonna be there way too late at night because uh we're gonna be starting that probably at 7 p.m. after all the after dinner, which, by the way, uh, very cool thing about the Crossroads GT is dinner on Saturday night is provided. Uh your ticket cost covers your dinner on Saturday night. Uh we've got dinner. What is the dinner? I gotta I gotta ask Corey what it is this year because we might be doing a food truck again. Last year we did a really nice food truck. Uh and before with that, we've done buffets. So there's been like uh big taco uh like Mexican buffets and stuff out.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:33

So it's usually a taco truck can make an appearance. There you go. But yeah I painted up a Sea Fox taco truck for uh for the bait.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:46

But uh Corey Reynolds, who who runs crossroads, is a big foodie. So he he's always always makes sure that the food is is good.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:54

So uh I would expect nothing less from someone who is very good friends with Chris Pelletier.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:59

Yes, yeah. Uh the the whole group loves good food. Whenever we go to a Depticon, they're always hunting out good food, which is why they go into like Brazilian steakhouses and stuff like that at the end. Which, of course, me as a vegetarian does not match with it. All right, it's alright.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:26

We the the second topic note, we've been kind of doing this anyway, was to talk about why you made the decisions you you made in terms of the packet. I think we've been going that doing that as we go along, but just sort of thoughts in general on on tournaments and structure. I we I think we were talking before on you one of the things you eliminated in the mission. So missions you're gonna you're using as a starting point the the Iliad missions. Um and one of the things you we were talking about before we started the record was the elimin possible elimination of King of the Hill. And why that is I I I think I agree with the thought and in a positive aspect for the format. Like in in Iliad games, I know I've changed the way I build lists and structure things for King of the Hill. My first few Iliads, I my playstyle, the way I like to play, is just a whole bunch of fast little lights and mediums. And I've started bringing a big fat anchor largely for King of the Hill, just so I can throw some weight on to the hill. Because if if if I just have lights and mediums, like I'll I'll run into a Steiner Wall of Steel, and I can't kill it fast enough to out out ton engine. I just lose turn four, turn five.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:51

Because you haven't brought enough stormbirds. Well, that's what that's how you must a star leader.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:03

Would you rather play Karnov down or against someone who is agree with?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:14

That's that is Carnov Down without Stormburns or something else with Stormburns. He's choosing Karnov down.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:21

That's a painful choice for Garner to have to make, by the way. Them are harsh words, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:26

Because Karnov down is an absolute crap. Karnov down by your opponent's mechs all have flippy arms.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:36

The Karnovs have flippy arms. Flippy rotors.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

That's why they would have down. Well played, sir.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:49

But but but going back to it, right? So and the reason King of the Hill is on there is to stop people from just doing light unit spam in to a certain sense. But we were stuck with two lists. I think there's the potential for something else to happen where with King of the Hill involved, you're you know, there's a good number of lists that might just end up being fast list and fat list, right? Because you you don't they don't have to share all of the units, and I'm not sure if that's healthy, healthy for the format. So by getting getting King of the Hill out of there, you're allowing people's unit choices, I think, to be a bit more diverse.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:29

Uh but I mean, it's hard because some of the ideas I had were a lot of like dispersed location uh objectives. And I'm not sure like if that's just gonna incentivize having more units again, right? Like lighter and more units. It's tricky, like you say, because it any change you make to any any part of a packet or the missions is going to influence the building choices that people make in order to try and to win those, right? And avoiding creating an artificial meadow where there's one beyond all is a slippery slope.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:09

So that's part of why King of Hill is in there as a as a tonnage page miss in league form.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:14

And conveniently there is a second pseudo King of the Hill in the rules packet. Because there's a mission that has two hills. Raise the flag.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:26

Now really I do like Raise the Flag because it is kind of attack-defend, right? Where it's not just plant your unit at your feet here, and you just win as long as your stuff doesn't die in time, right? Um that there is Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:40

Well, I'm just saying, but you have there's still a benefit to having uh like what I was saying is like it's like King of the Hill, but you're not in the same place, so it's still you still benefit from having a big immovable wall on something.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:56

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:56

Yeah. Which is what is if you play a thing, especially because I I like our spread, how we have it, of 80 points and objective and 20 points and killing. But if because of weighting objective play that high, you can run the risk of people just bringing all the fast little objective jobbers and doing that, and so having a game mode built in where you can't just fast objective job or something is a solid game mode. So that's that so it pulls us it pull it performs the same duty as King of the Hill in terms of list diversification.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:40

And you do have to also not look at King of the Hill too narrowly, right? So while there is just one big objective in the center, that it's you need to be in that objective, there are complexities that fast movers can still allow in that format.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:53

Uh being able to say that that's what I do in King of the Hill is I have one fast mover that can get their turn one.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:02

Well, so so yeah, you can start building points, right? But then those fast movers can also throw a wrench in the enemy's approach, right? You can get behind them, start start shooting into the rear, you can drop battle armor forward and start threatening swarms, you know, anything to slow the enemy down, body block, charge, sharp, right? DFA. Uh and it can start modifying your opponent's abilities early. Because if your opponent brings all, you know, big heavy three fives and four six that really if it be the efficient weight units, right? Um it's gonna be more predictable. You know they're just gonna try and roll into the zone and just and outweight you. So you have to find a way to adjust your win condition to the point where you can either destroy them by intercepting them early, or you know, do you do you potentially waste a unit? They're not wasting it, but you know, sacrifice a unit of body blocking them through a gap in in the uh the terrain that they plan to use to get there on turn three or something like that and get an extra turn ahead. There's a lot of more decisions you can make. And so it really doesn't just come down to necessarily a brawl on point. There there are choices you can make with a faster force that's not just all weight.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:14

Yes. But weight in King of the Hill is a very strong mechanic. Prime example at the invitational last year, when I brought a little fast jobber, and then an iron cheetah and a direwolf. Right. And said, try to take the hill from me. So I got my early turn one, and then by the time I got there on turn three with my other guys, there was nothing my opponent could do.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:53

If we don't have much left to talk about in terms of the packet and some rule stuff, uh my game's played is a King of the Hill match against Norton.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:04

With Stormbirds featuring three.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:07

Yeah, with Stormbirds and my main unit had flippy arms.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:11

I'm not even the flippy arms is whatever at this point. The Stormbirds is the focus of this this episode is brought to you by Jade Falcon Stormbirds.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:33

So this season for Iliad, I have been banned from using well not banned, I've been uh goaded into not using some of my key main units.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:46

Using the same three units in every list for a year.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:52

Yep. I have I I am a neurospicy of some kind, and what I I stick to certain things. Uh that aside, I noticed that uh uh a friend of ours is joining the the league for the first time. I personally I guess starting or you know, just learning about us getting into battle tech, and he built a Jade Falcon list in the dark age, and I was also doing something similar. And he he saw his list posted and he was using Stormbirds as I want to use Stormbirds, and I made a an actual bachal against him, and I need to find that, so give me one second here.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:34

You have to read it verbatim, except omitting names.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:38

So I have a headcanon about my unit being part of a specific uh Jade Falcon force. Don't need to get into that, but once I saw that uh I saw that he had posted his list of Jade Falcon, so I I said uh coming from uh Star Captain Samantha Pride, I see someone in the colors and plumage of a Jade Falcon, but I do not know you. I am Star Captain Samantha Pride of the Seventh Falcon Lancers. I serve the hand of the true Khan, Jaina Pride. If you serve the Khan, welcome and well net. If you follow the filthy Surat Malvina, I will strike you down like the Mongol dog you are. That was my Batrol. And he accepted it when we played King of the Hill. Now, this list, because I was not I was uh goaded and not using some of my main units, and because of some thoughts as an organizer, I've I decided to not go as heavy into building a truly competitive list. I made some active choices that were not optimized and went around literally a storm bird theme. Because I started with, yes, I brought Stormbird battle arms armor, I brought a storm crow. Everything was birds or bird or storm related, including uh Indra infantry carrier, which is named after an Indian storm god. I know, Garner, you're gonna mention the Ironholds. Yes. Battle armor, which are from the Jade Falcon home planet of Ironhold. Stretch. It might be a stretch, not a bird.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:14

It is not a bird. He's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:20

They cannot jump. Therefore, not a bird.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:25

No, they can jump. They can, they jump two. They can jump one. I thought they jumped too, my bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:30

No, the ironhold jump one. Oh, it's a stormbird that jump two. Stormbirds jump two. In any case, so we decided we were we played a match, and we ended up getting King of the Hill. And I had to bring Star Captain Samantha in her Jade Phoenix, even if it wasn't technically the best choice. I think we had this conversation afterwards. And we had a match of his Cygnus, his storm birds, and some of his mechs, including a Dasher versus my Jade Phoenix C. Um, my Jade Phoenix C. I should pull up the actual list now, shouldn't I? Probably. They're right at the top.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:13

I'd like to point out this is also where you learned that a Cygnus is a bird.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:17

That is, yes. I didn't realize a Cygnus was a bird. So I technically only had one more bird than him. But he brought a Cygnus, a Dasher, a Butcher Bird, a crossbow, and one of his Stormbird battle armors. I brought a Jade Phoenix C, uh, Vapor Eagle 2, a Fire Falcon D, and Stormbird. Battle armor of my own. I do have artillery as part of my force list. I decided not to bring it because I wasn't confident he would bring his battle armor as part of the King of the Hill. I was wrong on that. And I'm honestly I just couldn't build a deployment that I liked that included and had room for the artillery. This is not my best list, I will admit, but it is bird theme. In any case, we we we we entered and it was very it was still very hard fought. The dasher charged it and tried to get some earlier work done and ended being crippled. It really came down to a brawl right in the middle. My Jade Phoenix jumping behind his crossbow, his crossbow, which goodness, I peppered all of the armor off of that thing. All of it. But I the turn I got into its rear with my double ATM 12s high explosive on sevens, I missed both shots. And I was that next turn, it was almost dead. If I had killed that crossbow, which was very feasible, I could have turned around and won that game. But because the crossbow refused to die, because it just I could not concentrate damage in any location, he ran away. And the the one turn, the one turn he turned and shot at the Jade Phoenix and actually hit, it went from completely untouched to I think 40-something damage just in the right arm. Ammo crit and knocked out the ATM. And with that gone and the Vapor Eagle fallen and couldn't get back in after three turns of trying to kill the crossbow, there I it was over. I could not recover, and he got all the points for King of the Hill. And the funny part, the funny part is his response afterwards, claiming victory. And he responded, strange he'll the dion, but at least you are dead. Star Leader is final words to Samantha Pride. And it's like he did not kill Samantha Pride. Also, Star Leader is not a designation. It is not a rank. It is Star Captain. And then you get like Galaxy Commander, but like there's Star Leader is not among you might have Point Leader if you're an elementor, the leader of an elementar point, but you do not get star claiming victory. So uh I am determined that we still have to play one more game with these forces. We have to play VIP VIP Clash and have Star Leader versus Star Captain. And are the the ending the ending was dead? If Malvita's lackeys and thugs call their enemies dead while they not only breathe, but still yet fight, you only serve to prove me right. You may have taken the field, but you are no warrior of honor. Star Leader may as well be honest and call yourself a bandit. Keeaf? And to end this series of events, you responded, Clan speak hard. You know, use words good. But it was definitely total blast. I am excited for this person to continue playing. He's going to be at the tournament. He's a very strong player, currently 5-0 this season. And uh, you know, playing a close match that was this entertaining, then you know, like coming to coming down to that without a best list, the best list that I've ever made. Like, it was great. I mean, I've I've told Garner this. When I lose to somebody who's more skilled, but it's still a hard fought, and and like these are some of my favorite games. I don't mind losing when it's when it's not just like terrible dice. Like I hate when I hate when I lose falling on my rear and exploding my own ammo on myself. That I hate. Lots of fun. I am excited for Star Captain Samantha Pride to fight against Star Leader Norton. Alright, so what are your guys' games played?

SPEAKER_05 1:30:36

I've only played one since Adepticon. Uh let's see, so what, two seasons ago then? Uh I played against Nate in Iliad for my one match that season. Uh let me see if I can bring up my uh my list here. But I was playing a clan wolf list that was based around a very disgusting Tomahawk C. Which is uh a little bit rude, perhaps, but uh that's what we had. Uh so I had a Tomahawk C, I had a Ice Ferret J, uh, I had Warg Battle Armor, um an APC to drop them, heavy hover APC, and what else am I forgetting? I think it might have been that might have been my entire deployment for that match. Trying to bring up my my list right here on drive. And let's see, it's been it's been a few couple months since then.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:34

Nate, I believe, brought that since the season he brought the Nova Cat, Nabori Nin, Sphinx, Void Medium Battle Armor, Griffin 2c4, Thunderbird Battle Armor, and Jenner 2C4. And there's my list.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:51

He brought the Nova Cat D, the Huntsman D, and the Stinks 4. For uh for that match. And then I think. Oh, you know what? And he had he had the uh he had the void battle armor as well. Because I remember they they were trying to get into uh into swarming position. So we we played uh Garner's mission, raise the flag. Um I think I actually won token game for once, but uh I ended up dropping off my wargs on on my um on my flag and brought my tomahawk over to guard it sitting in heavy woods behind the level one. So it was in a pretty nasty position, and I'd also used my tokens to remove the woods that were in front of it, so it just had a kind of nice wide open field of fire for its four clan large pulse lasers. And I realized also, I think I have not very often used clam large pulse. Um, I think I've only ever brought them a couple times before, and I've definitely never boated them to this level. Um it tried to set up the board where he was having on his side uh what map is it? It's only has a whole bunch of little pillars on it, like level two or level three pillars. And he was trying to use those to hide from the uh uh around his flag from the uh the tomahawk. And so what ended up happening though was I was finding angles that I could run in my um uh my fire moth. Fire moth, sorry, my ice ferret, uh 8S Ferret J, which is the one with all of the ER small lasers targeting computer and a supercharger. And like there was one point where he had jammed a his. I think it's a yeah, it's not a rack, it's a uh it's uh ultra auto cannon on the Huntsman D. I think it's an Ultra 10 or something like that. He jammed it the first round, he shot it. So he tried to hide behind a rock and then uh unjam it. And so I ran the ice ferret up alongside him, but it went a place where none of the other mechs could shoot it, and it poured a ton of damage into the huntsman. Um, he popped out, shot it again. I think jammed it again the next shot. So he rolled snake eyes both times. He tried to fire the Ultra 10. And at that point, he tried pushing forward with the Novacat D and the Sphinx 4 into the Wargs and the um uh the Tomahawk C. And they they both got just absolutely shredded. Uh the Sphinx took the main weight of the fire. Um oh wait, you know, I also had salamanders. I had salamanders that are brought as well, and the salamanders ended up getting a swarm off on the Novacat later in the game, and the Sphinx managed to push forward and get into a position where it could kick the um the tomahawk because it was the tomahawk was behind level one instead of standing on level zero, using the partial cover, of course. Uh, but the sphinx took so much damage getting there that when it when it unloaded both its racks of the ATM 12s with HE, uh, I think it was everything was hitting on like it was it was really, really bad. I think it was hitting everything on like fours and sixes, or maybe threes and fives, or something like that, because it didn't have much of a TMM. And that that Sphinx just got absolutely eradicated. Uh, it died before the second ATM even rolled the cluster. So it goes down, uh, it doesn't get the kickoff. The uh huntsman was trying to prevent me from capturing his flag because I was using my uh heavy hover APC and flanked around the map. It was on it. Uh it managed to disable it first shot, so then it couldn't capture anymore. And Huntsman managed to jump up above it and kill it. But my ice sparret ran up adjacent to the Huntsman again, unloaded into it with all the small lasers, and ended up uh I think I caught an ammo bin on it, and uh the pilot ended up getting knocked out. I think I think I clipped the head with a laser hit and he took a few pilot moons and it was on the ground and just got torn apart. At that point, it was just the Novicat, which had now been swarmed, and the um Salamanders hit center torso and crit out the gyro with their first swarm damage hit. So the void battle armor had also been sidestepped by the Tomahawk, so they didn't manage to swarm it, and we're forced to go for the point. And at that point, we we called the game because uh I had the warg sitting on my my capture point, so the voids could not capture it, and the the Novicat was quickly getting dismantled by the swarm damage and the um the tomahawk, and then obviously I had my ice barret sitting on his uh on his flag, so it was just a matter of time before I had all the points. It was a pretty pretty brutal fight. I I felt bad. I I bought him dinner after. Yeah, pretty pretty brutal fight. Tomahawk's a very good mech. It's uh it's a bit egregious.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:44

Oh, you mean like a longbow 13C? Really? A sleeper mech, like a longbow 13C.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:52

Sleeper, yeah. People are sleeping on the tomb.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:56

Oh, people are definitely sleeping on it, uh, in my opinion. Uh I've back when I first met Murph, right? And uh Dan, a lot a lot of the guys down here in Corning. Um Dan was hosting a campaign that they had been running for a couple weeks, and Murph and I came in as to play opfors for a couple players and then rolled our forces in that night. And one of the things that I had as a Hail Mary acquisition, I needed to leaven up on uh uh 2d6 in order to acquire it, was a veteran clan pilot in a uh Tomahawk sea. So Dan rolled all my dice, and he said that when he went through, I'd missed everything. I missed my Black Lanterns, I missed um, I missed some of my pack hunters, I missed my Arctic Wolves. Like I didn't get a bunch of the things I'd gone for. Uh and so we got to the end of the list, and I still had money left over, and and in case a bunch of things had missed, I had that tomahawk there. And he rolled it, he rolled the 11, and so I had a Tomahawk C with a 2-3 pilot sitting on my list, which was worth over 5,000 BV, which was the limit we were currently playing at. The league was going, not league, but the uh the campaign was gonna expand in BB played over time, but I was playing at just 5k uh or sometimes 6k matches for the beginning, so people could kind of you know get used to playing the game. So I had this monster tomahawk sitting in the wings uh ready, because apparently, late game, what was gonna happen was for the final missions in order to encourage people to uh rank up their pilots because your pilots who could XP over time and could actually improve. Uh, so saving your pilots, making sure they didn't die and using them a lot and trying to get up to veteran or release pilots was gonna be rewarded in the later missions with you would not pay the BV tax for upgrading the pilots in the final battle, was one of the ideas he had. So I was not gonna unveil that tomahawk until the end. People were seeing all of the mediums and lights I had and battle armor, but that was all they were saying we deployed. So some people didn't even think I had any heavies or assaults. And it was true, I only had one timber wolf other than that that tomahawk, but that tomahawk was sitting there waiting to come out someday, and it it's a monster of mechanic.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:07

Yeah. I think the tomahawk gets mentioned constantly in a lot of some other like Discords I'm in where I'm just like, you you you talk of it as a sleeper, I talk about it as like, oh yeah, that thing. I hear about all the time. Like, what do you what do you mean?

SPEAKER_05 1:39:22

I just I've never seen many people like talk about it or use it. And then sometimes I see people like, man, have you ever seen this thing? Like I see it come up every once in a while, and it's just like, yeah, it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:34

I think the main thing is it doesn't have a plastic mini. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:40

And so I I so if you get into crowds that are past the plastic, I think it comes up a lot. But if you're in in c in crowds that stick to uh steer more towards the CGL plastics, it's not gonna be brought up much.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:56

That's just I mean, I feel like that is also something that like you know, some people only have access to the plastic, you know, they they don't go for three for instant proxying much, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:04

Oh, I I don't begrudge any anyone for that. Like focusing on the mechs that are like newer models and available, people who may not not may not be so deep into the hobby that they've they've started to scroll through the vast catalog of iron metals. Like I don't begrudge anyone anyone that it's just for people who have been around a lot, like other agents, you know, people who've been playing and have like the multiple decades batches from events and things like they know it. Right. I mean, that's part of they know it.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:35

I would like to point out that I every few months I just sit there and I start scrolling through the Ironwind's catalog. It's a it's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:44

Yeah, I was just gonna say you have a problem. You and Nate, Nate should stay away from the Ironwind metals booth.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:52

But there's also just like a lot of people don't really if you don't know where to look to find new units in Battletech, right? You also won't really find them. So if you're used to just seeing stuff that comes out in force packs, and sometimes you get stuff that comes out in the force pack, people like, what the heck is that, right? People might not know what a chimera is or something like that and have to look it up, right? Because if it hasn't been featured in like one of the video games or something like that, a lot of people don't have exposure to it or it might not be one of their favorite mechs, right? And like, you know, yeah, like scarabus up the world. Like where are you ever gonna notice a scarabus is a thing unless you run into one of the people that uses it, or are there even any books that have a scarabus in them? Like unless if you're searching through you know mech bay or something like that for you know TSM lights with a hatchet, you know, then then you're gonna find the scarabus real quick.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:45

I mean, so that's how I find a lot of my awkward like wack-a-doodle mechs, even if I'm trying to build like a classic force, I will s clip on the MUL and then just start searching by uh Alpha Strike keywords and be like, I want something that's got this. What kind of things have this that I haven't seen before? And then I'm like, okay, cool. Now what does it look like in classic?

SPEAKER_03 1:42:17

I just know people are going to search for things with the most clan large pulse lasers.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:22

Yeah, the tomahawk isn't too deep when you really start searching, right? Like if you're looking for quad clan large pulse laser. They're gonna be the tomahawk, the rifleman. You already have the rifleman, like anyway, get getting getting a little bit distracted there.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:41

I I guess from my perspective, I'll talk about um my first match. Uh so I was able to play uh Aaron Cajal, who is uh also known as Cubby, who is an assistant line developer for CGL, um very well versed in the Alpha Strike Commanders edition, uh, as he helped write quite a bit of it. So I was able to play him. The cool aspect from my perspective was he brought uh Ghost Bearer list and or Russell Hog Dominion, I suppose. Uh, and he brought a Contio, and it was the uh core uh or uh I think it's the starter box version of the Contio, and I was able to see the mech up close play against it, which is a terrible mech. Well, it's a fabulous mech, it's just terrible to play against. Um, so it's cool to see that up close, and you know, Aaron did a fabulous job with his painting. Uh it he just uh it was an amazing paint job. I was very impressed, and he was a lot of fun to play against.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:53

Don't worry, the Contio is also terrifying in uh in classic. Absolutely. I have used it to win one of my tournaments, so he's a monster all around.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:06

This is part of what I was mentioning too about uh or meant to meant to hit on with players uh sometimes not getting exposure to certain things, right? So as stuff comes out with new force packs, I feel like certain things are gonna really uh come to a head with certain things being used. Which is why with uh the new starter boxes, like there's gonna be a lot of contios and hammerheads out there at events.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:29

Yeah, that's just it. I mean, like the contio in particular. I know about that mech, but it's hard to there's not a really a great proxy for it. Um I don't even know. Is that one in our uh in Ironwind Medals uh inventory? I I feel like that I think it's too new.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:48

Yeah, I think I I had to pre-printed it for the tournament I went to.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:51

Right, exactly. So you don't see it on the tournament scene or on the table very often because it's such a a uh a newish mech that's been out there, but it like I've seen the card uh for Alpha Strike and I've seen the you know the record sheet uh for classic. And yes, it is a monster. Uh the fact that it's gonna be coming soon to everybody's table is is scary.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:20

The the issue I have with it is that it's getting a not DV reflected buff.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:26

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_04 1:45:28

Core rules removing the penalty to claws that possibly zero to punch instead of a plus. That's right. Oh yeah. Oh, that's gonna be that's free pilot skill upgrade on decapitating punches, boys.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:43

Yeah, that's yeah. Stealth Mac with this fury.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:49

And very fast.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:51

And very, very good, uh, easy heat curve to manage. Yeah, Kantyo is very good in the hands of a good player. Exactly. So the thing is the tournaments I won with it, or tournament I won with it, which was instant action at uh uh death account. Um I didn't kill a single mech with it. I just zoned people with it because they were they were forced to react to it so uh uh violently and put so many backs against walls. It didn't kill anything, but it just forced so many decisions from the opponent just hanging out with its DSM on the U.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:22

I mean it it is uh uh a knife fighter or a claw fighter. It it you do need to get in close with it. Uh it it's uh if you could stay at range, you could probably take it down, but stealth armor is gonna be hard to hit, fast movement, high TMM. I mean, it's it's it's a monster.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:47

Anyway, sorry, not uh I got your uh example.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:50

No, no, no, no. Uh I mean I wasn't gonna go into detail play by play. I mean, it was a great, I just I thought it was a a great match that I was able to uh play against uh you know a CGL uh line developer, as well as being able to see the Contio, and it was a fantastic match. It really was. I mean, it it was you know, it was their mission called Circle of Ending, which is an interesting six-point uh controls of the area type of thing where one of the points switches between uh being the primary or just the secondary. So you're trying to switch it, ask Steve. Has a chance of yes, exactly, has a chance of switching. It's an interesting match where you're you're trying to control six points on the board. Two are in your zone, two are in your opponent's zone, and two are on the center line. So that and one like Garner said, uh has uh the has a chance of switching between primary and not. So, you know, if you can manage to control that primary for a few rounds, which Aaron was very successful at doing, um, you can really drive the the victory. So but it was a fun game.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:07

Yeah, so I did not like I I had some games to that I played there, and I think that's really the only games that I've played, really. I mean, I guess I've played a couple versus Norton where he just swept the floor with me. Um but other than that, like I don't know, it's a I guess we'll we'll go into the Batchol mission at uh Battle for the Bay. So round two of Battle for the Bay had a effectively a batch all mission, which all pseudo honor duels had to be performed. If anybody hit somebody else, that immediately locked them into combat with Um that mech. And so they could only shoot at each other without incurring a large victory point penalty. Unless they were out of line of sight for one turn. So it was like that's where I'm saying it's pseudo, because you could break line of sight with no penalty, and all that would do would be unlocking you from that duel that turn. Um but fortunately my list that I brought, working for my opponent, the list that I brought to Battle for the Bay, three or four assaults, one heavy, two mediums and an ultralight. Yeah, so four assaults, one heavy, yeah, two mediums and an ultralight.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:40

Hey, Garner, you you should add in that you when you do these batals and and you're trying to do these matchups, you have to be within one size. That's what I was trying to get to.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:50

That's actually why I was explaining the subness of my list. So that's what I'm saying. It's it's hard. It was it was kind of a rough time for my opponent because I I had effectively a wall of steel. And so with my four assaults and one heavy, he'll you can only challenge within plus minus one size of you until there's no other options to until there's nobody that you could challenge. So say once once my medium, my two mediums, my light died, his lights and mediums could then start challenging my assaults. And so what I ended up doing was tying up a bunch of things early, and I had a small C3 network, so I was running my C3 spotters net next to the targets of the of the du of where the people were locked in the duels to get like my sunder short range on my or on my opponent's Templar with the Kirus that was right next to the Centurion that was or Wolverine that it was locked in combat with, stuff like that. So I was just getting better target numbers, but if the game had got on one more turn, I would have lost. Wholeheartedly. Because I only lost one mech, and that was my sunder. Because it just took way too much damage. Because it tried to fight too many things. But all of my mechs had one or two pips of total life left by the end. Uh by the time time was called. And so I somehow managed. So because of that, there was no cripple rules. It was just how much did you have left surviving, not how much did you have left uncrippled, or crippled counts as half Pv for remaining standing. So my force, even though it was very, very well pummeled, and my opponent had effectively a fresh Wolverine, the fresh blackjack, and um a mostly intact ostol. I had twice I had all I had just shy of twice the score just because my stuff didn't end up actually dying. Which was a weird situation to be in. And the game mode itself was interesting. I liked the concept, but there were some ways that it could have been abused, and one way it was effectively abused by some other players at the event. Uh where, like we were saying, we're, you know, if we're like we were talking about earlier about points like it being points-based scoring, as opposed to win-loss Swiss pairings, the players saw, and they both said, okay, well, we're just not going to fight with the rest of our forces, because if we don't, we'll max out the primary objective, because the primary objective was a max of 30 points, and your remaining V V, or excuse me, your remaining PV divided by 10 was how many points you got. And since we had 350 PV forces, if your commander or whatever was less than 59 points, you still would max out your score. So you what this group of people did was they both just had their commander's duel, and the rest of their force just stood around on the sidelines watching. So they would so they both maxed out their scores effectively. One it was a 40 to 38 win.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:58

That that that clearly is the drawback to a point system versus a win-loss system, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:06

Yeah, I guess collusion, right, is usually is an issue you shouldn't have to worry about, but um it it it is one of the the upsides of a uh a blackjack system.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:17

Although then, I mean, the playoffs. You could have added 10-11. Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:23

Yep. So I don't know. But like the the issue that would have fixed that is just to say that, you know, you like the the easy line that I said that they the because I was talking with some of the TOs later that night over dinner, and I was like, think like you should have to say if there is a target on the board for you to that you could challenge, you must attempt to get within range and fire upon the closest one. Or not the closest one, maybe, but one within range. You must yeah, so you can't hide from the fight. So I don't know. Anyways, anything else?

SPEAKER_03 1:55:12

Yeah, with with the with whether it's Swiss with pure win loss points, there's there's uh good and bad to all of them. And it's kind of like we we sometimes say with with the pulse limit. I got pulse limit works for now, VIP clash works for now. I want to find something better, but until something better shows up, it's what we're using.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:34

Yeah, all right. Well, I gotta get going.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:37

So all right. So uh as always, thank you, Garner. Thank you, Chris, for filling in for Luke, the man with the terrible microphone. Zess, thank you for coming by and announcing your tournament and talking about the packet. I'm sure we'll be uh talking about that again soon.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:00

Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:00

Yeah, thanks for having me on. Thanks for the promo.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:02

And uh I'll see you boys at Crossroads. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:06

Thanks everyone. Have a good bag.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:13

Thank you for listening to the Odysseus Legion podcast. This podcast was created by the Odysseus Legion, a battletech club organizing play around central and western New York State. Rules for all of our formats, as well as a calendar of Odysseus Legion events, can be found on our website, OdysseusLegion.com. All music and audio in this recording was licensed through Adobe Stock or open source. All views expressed here under those of the person expressed to them, and do not necessarily represent the views of the Odysseus Legion, Catalyst Game Labs, or the Catalyst Demo team. Please make sure to like and subscribe to the Odysseus Legion podcast on your podcast platform of choice or on our YouTube channel. Have a great day. Alright, like I try to take a decongestion before we record because I'm slightly allergic to my dog.

SPEAKER_07 1:57:11

Um but yes, so I knew I got you sleep and cuddle with it constantly. Uh I don't know what you're talking about, man. I'm not chewing.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:32

Curling paper. Anyway.